DETAILinside: You’ve just completed offices for FischerAppelt. It’s the first time you turned a fictional story into a spatial scenario. What attracted you to this project?
Judith Haase: FischerAppelt designs campaigns for brands or products, they are storytellers. This is exactly what we are not so that made the project exciting. We were able to approach the theme in our own abstract way.
DETAILinside: How did you come to the “Alice in Wonderland“ theme?
Judith Haase: While I was a student I worked for director and visual artist Robert Wilson. The first piece that I did with him was “Alice in Wonderland“. I also met Pierre Jorge through Robert. The story therefore also marks the beginning of our collaboration.
DETAILinside: Fantastical fictional characters in an office setting: how do the two go together?
Judith Haase: On her journey Alice meets very different characters. We gave a lot of thought as to how to translate these characters into architecture and combine them with the functional aspects of an office. The caterpillar is the central motif in the boardroom on the fifth floor. It is wise, sits on a mushroom and smokes while giving Alice advice on how to behave in Wonderland. So the meeting rooms have glass panes covered in films of different opacities. The segments of the caterpillar’s body appear in an abstracted form in the reception desk (C), as well as in the sofa seating, which is modular and can be added to. The fourth floor is dedicated to the red-clad twins Tweedledum and Tweedledee. Here the ceiling is completely mirrored and the surfaces are highly reflective — you can literally see double (D). On the predominantly black-hued third floor mirrors are mounted at right angles to one another so that when you step forward you appear and suddenly disappear again — like the Cheshire cat, which we reference but which you don’t see. We prefer to translate it into movement and architecture.
DETAILinside: Presentation is also a game of credibility. How do you recognise how far you can go?
Pierre Jorge Gonzalez: The advantage is that customers come to us because of our approach. If we remain faithful to this approach and the customer does not put too much pressure on us, the result is authentic. FischerAppelt is a good example because the project required the implementation of a story. This is not the usual way we develop our spaces. However, we were completely free in our decisions. So we created a world that is still abstract. It’s only if you know the idea behind it that you start to connect it with the story.
DETAILinside: How do you develop and test spatially complex scenarios?
Pierre Jorge Gonzalez: We produce many sketches and generate 3D designs out of these. This gives us a complete understanding of dimensions, lighting conditions and supporting structure. We then define what materials to use. The result is a sort of virtual sculpture.
DETAILinside: You seem to have a very healthy pipeline and an enormous output of projects.
Judith Haase: We just like to work (laughs). We are inspired by so many things around us. We try not to repeat ourselves. There is no formula. That makes the work interesting. But no matter what the project is, the focus is on space.
DETAILinside: What does this mean in concrete terms?
Pierre Jorge Gonzalez: In the first place we want to make the space legible. That’s why we remove all superfluous elements such as walls, cladding or decor to see what the space is really composed of.
Judith Haase: For the Beets & Roots Restaurant (E, F), we first completely gutted the existing building. At this point you could see the bare concrete walls and the joints of the precast elements. The new cement tiles cover only half the wall. The new elements are not about hiding anything, rather they point to what is already there. This makes them an integral part of the architecture (page 13).
Pierre Jorge Gonzalez: That also applies to the interiors. We let them enter into a dialogue with the architectural environment.
DETAILinside: You developed a sophisticated wall system for the Assembling exhibition that displays the exhibits in unusual ways.
Pierre Jorge Gonzalez: We wanted to suggest a separation without actually dividing the room. We used simple drywall stud profiles to create a partially transparent ”curtain” that skirts around the design objects on display, imaginatively avoiding them (H, I). Their physical presence also provides a route through the exhibition.
DETAILinside: You didn’t just display the classic 20th century furniture pieces on platforms .
Judith Haase: That’s right. We hung some of the furniture up, attached several Eames stools to a column (page 61) and integrated the Hamlet chair by Robert Wilson into the metal structure.
Pierre Jorge Gonzalez: Ultimately it is a matter of how you decide to display things. In the art world one often has the impression that the space must never disturb the art. We wanted to do the opposite and have metal elements protruding into your field of vision forcing you to look at the object from another side.
DETAILinside: What fascinates you about light?
Judith Haase: Robert Wilson says: There is no space without light.
Pierre Jorge Gonzalez: At the heart of our work is the question of how to use artificial light to create a space that is absolutely lucid. We prefer lighting systems that relate to the main elements of the architecture, as if the light had always been there. We see light as an element that defines and creates space. We incorporate it as an integrated layer: when you take it away, the building is no longer there.
DETAILinside: For the Berinson Gallery you worked in two different locations. What makes the two lighting concepts different?
Pierre Jorge Gonzalez: We transferred the same basic idea to two completely different spatial situations. In the old building in Schlüterstraße (J, K) an individual spatial solution had led to a dissatisfactory and fragmented overall result. So we developed a lighting system that overcomes the spatial separation. We installed visually continuous guide rails at regular intervals that were detached from the respective floor plan of the walls. In some ways the light takes on a space-defining function. This consistency was important to us.
DETAILinside: How is lighting design for a museum context different from creating lighting for a boutique?
Pierre Jorge Gonzalez: It’s all the same to us. Whether it’s images or products, we generally refuse to emphasise particular objects. Spotlights are somewhat old-fashioned, they create a sort of half-light. We prefer the lighting to be low contrast and find it important not to isolate individual objects but instead to make the surrounding space perceptible.
Judith Haase: We designed our first fashion boutique like a gallery. We concealed all the technical elements, such as plugs or switches, to allow people to concentrate on the clothing.
DETAILinside: Your boutique for Andreas Murkudis was your introduction into the concept store theme.
Pierre Jorge Gonzalez: Normally in this case it is about establishing a direct connection with the brand. Murkudis is not a brand however. It’s a curated art space with goods, a space that does not simulate but functions as a spatially concise unit with uniform lighting conditions (L, M).
DETAILinside: The industrial interiors of the recently completed Balenciaga boutique in Paris are in complete contrast to the designer clothing (N, O).
Judith Haase: Yes and that’s what we wanted, a strong but quiet background for the clothes (page 36). Normally with a brand it is about designing a space that’s as extravagant as possible.
Pierre Jorge Gonzalez: We see our task as pushing things forward and enabling unusual ideas, as does Demna Gvasalia, chief designer for Balenciaga.
DETAILinside: So you are playing with the idea of subversion?
Pierre Jorge Gonzalez: Fashion can be quite boring — or it can be staged as an art form. But when the work of art is self-explanatory, it quickly becomes uninteresting because it doesn’t open up any new perspectives.
DETAILinside: Your work is often described as reflecting the charm of the raw or the unfinished.
Pierre Jorge Gonzalez: Spaces have to be flexible. They should neither be expensive nor complicated to make. There is a lot of freedom that results from this: the design remains open to progress or change. This is very important. It is great to be in a space where you do not have to be afraid of getting it dirty. With finished surfaces you are obliged to maintain them. We look for different solutions. This opens up many possibilities, everything else is a restriction.
